Where does the LSC fit into the big Y picture?

SNPs and STRs are two types of mutations of our DNA. Once they happen, the new variation is passed down to subsequent generations. The pattern of mutations can be used to reconstruct our family tree.


SNPs are far more stable than STR markers, and if they mutate, they typically won't mutate again along a lineage. Because of their stability, they can be used to identify branches of the Y-tree, called haplogroups. We can trace one particular lineage back up the Y-tree and come across the SNP mutations which distinguish the succession of branchings of the tree.

Testing at FTDNA, ScotlandsDNA and FullGenomes has taken place to determine which SNPs men in the LSC carry. Most of the common SNPs discovered are a result of full y-chromosome sequencing of either Alex Williamson or Jim Wilson. This will change however as test results from the "Big Y" test at FTDNA begin to arrive. Any SNP that happened before the founding of the LSC will be carried by all LSC men. However, there are many SNPs that are carried by only some men in the cluster.

The tree below summarizes our current understand of SNPs relevant to the LSC. Rather than starting at the beginning, we've started the tree at a SNP labelled L21/S145. This SNP is present in a large fraction of men in Western Europe, and particularly in the British Isles. It is thought to have happened somewhere in continental Europe about 4000 years ago, and has been brought to the British Isles many times since. We don't yet have any idea of when the LSC line was brought to Scotland, but it was before the founding of the cluster about 1200 years ago.

In the table above, we can tell that the Reddin men in the cluster will test positive for SNPs S424, S426, S3025, and other SNPs "above" him, but will be negative for all those SNPs on parallel branches, such as S190, etc. Similarly, the Sloan and Chambers men would test positive for S425, S5033; S190, S307, S308, ...; as well as S424, S426, etc. At present most of the LSC men fall in the branch under S190, and don't have any other SNPs identifying them.

Those SNPs that are labelled starting with "FG(C)" were found in Alex Williamson's FullGenomes test. Those with "S" numbers were generally found in Jim Wilson's DNA. However, there are some new "S" series SNPs (those greater than 27000) that were found in comparing the Williamson and Wilson results. The CTS1199 SNP for Colson was found in his Chromo2 results at ScotlandsDNA.

The table below outlines the full list of known LSC related SNPs:

Position (hg19)Name(s)AncDerStatus
22282169S27830CAunverified S424 or S190 branch or deeper
22502171S27832GTunverified S424 or S190 branch or deeper
22503198S27833TGunverified S424 or S190 branch or deeper
58840834S27834GTunverified S424 or S190 branch or deeper
17361380FGC3189/S424ACS424 branch
21286313FGC3190/S426AGS424 branch
5188687FGC3179/S3025CGS424 branch
6704979FGC3181/S3026CTS424 branch
7368747S3031CTS424 branch
14912344FGC3187/S3057GAS424 branch
15683936FGC3188/S3058TCS424 branch
17112718FGC3207/S423TAS424 branch
23358213S3106TCS424 branch
7387922FGC3184/S3032CGunverified S424 or S190 branch
23358213S3106TCunverified S424 or S190 branch
3148534FGC3178/S3020CTunverified S424 or S190 branch
7042716S3029GAunverified S424 or S190 branch
5433952S27821GAunverified S424 or S190 branch
6408924FGC3180/S27822AGunverified S424 or S190 branch
7323076FGC3183/S27823TCunverified S424 or S190 branch
15656831S27825TCunverified S424 or S190 branch
16815343S27826ATunverified S424 or S190 branch
16680097FGC3215/S27827GTGunverified S424 or S190 branch
25288792S428CAunverified S424 or S190 branch
27512831S429TCunverified S424 or S190 branch
4687827FGC3195AGunverified S424 or S190 branch
18017942FGC3209GAunverified S424 or S190 branch
15117619FGC3205GTunverified S424 or S190 branch
21475911FGC3210GAunverified S424 or S190 branch
4511965FGC3194AGunverified S424 or S190 branch
13707656S27829ATunverified S424 or S190 branch
22360358S27831TCunverified S424 or S190 branch
14211141CTS2187/S190TCS190 branch
8403749S308GAS190 branch
23580097FGC3191/S427GCS190 branch
9376352FGC3185/S309GAS190 branch
17546935FGC3208/S301CGS190 branch
18833592CTS9333/S307CAS190 branch
6810313FGC3182/S3027ACS190 branch
9146925S3034CAS190 branch
6826834FGC3177/S3028TCS190 branch
9101720S3033CAS3033 branch
18712022S425AGS3033 branch
4420341S304AGunverified S3033 or Wilson branches
7438341S305TCunverified S3033 or Wilson branches
23612105S306GCunverified S3033 or Wilson branches
18923893S3063TCunverified S3033 or Wilson branches
7044065S3030TCunverified S3033 or Wilson branches
3963309S27803TCunverified S3033 or Wilson branches
22347756S27806TGunverified S3033 or Wilson branches
22424911S27807AGunverified S3033 or Wilson branches
22430522S27808ACunverified S3033 or Wilson branches
22492943S27809TCunverified S3033 or Wilson branches
22493885S27811CGunverified S3033 or Wilson branches
22496797S27813ACunverified S3033 or Wilson branches
22502005S27814TGunverified S3033 or Wilson branches
22636405S27815TAunverified S3033 or Wilson branches
22903880S27816GAunverified S3033 or Wilson branches
27522981S27817GAunverified S3033 or Wilson branches
58833713S27818TCunverified S3033 or Wilson branches
58840380S27819GCunverified S3033 or Wilson branches
58860045S27820GCunverified S3033 or Wilson branches
21152636S27828TCunverified S3033 or Wilson branches
16849107S422AGWilson branches
7248059S302CTWilson branches
16536225S421TCWilson branches
19412248S303ATWilson branches
22116290S3068AGWilson branches
16461797S420ACWilson branches
13378373FGC3186/S27824CTunverified Williamson/NA12043 branch?
26722140FGC3213ACunverified Williamson/NA12043 branch?
3899172FGC3193GTunverified Williamson/NA12043 branch?
23275266FGC3212CGunverified Williamson/NA12043 branch?
3779037FGC3192ACunverified Williamson branch
6067820FGC3196ATunverified Williamson branch
7952608FGC3197TCunverified Williamson branch
7992480FGC3198CTunverified Williamson branch
8790228FGC3199AGunverified Williamson branch
8980644FGC3200TAunverified Williamson branch
9085250FGC3201GTunverified Williamson branch
9114725FGC3202GTunverified Williamson branch
13128633FGC3203ACunverified Williamson branch
13979797FGC3204TCunverified Williamson branch
15452508FGC3206GAunverified Williamson branch
21617233FGC3211ACunverified Williamson branch
28675156FGC3214TCunverified Williamson branch
14439921FGC3216CATCunverified Williamson branch
21464771FGC3217GTTCGunverified Williamson branch
7264950CTS1199CTColson branch or larger

Various members of the cluster have been tested to determine their haplogroup. As new SNPs are constantly being discovered, there is always a need for more testing to be done. On November 7, 2008 Steven Colson, a cluster member, tested positive for the SNP L21, making our cluster's haplogroup R-L21*. In August of 2011, Clif Hinds and Frank Boggs tested positive for the newly discovered DF21, making our cluster's haplogroup R-DF21. S424 and S190 date back to 2012, while S425 and S5033 are from October, 2013.

Naming Conventions

There are two common systems in place to label various haplogroups. Both have their own advantages and disadvantages. The "long" form was the original one in use. However, as it continued to get longer and longer, a short form became popular. Depending on the family in the LSC, different haplogroup names are appropriate.

For our parent clade L21, the common short form designation for all men who carry this SNP is either R-L21 or sometimes R1b-L21. The current long form designation as used by FTDNA is R1b1a2a1a1b4. This long form describes the path along a specific tree to get to the terminal SNP. In this case, start at "R", then take branch 1, then branch "b", then branch 1, then branch "a", etc. When there weren't so many branches, this wasn't so bad.

Nowadays, the short form is much more common to see. For the Reddin men in the cluster, then would say their haplogroup is R-S424 or R-S424*. The * indicates that they have tested negative for the known children clades of R-424, such as S190, etc. The majority of the LSC men have haplogroup R-S190. The Sloans and Chambers would have haplogroup R-S425. The SNPs above actually break up the Wilson family, and some of them have different designations from each other.

For those of you who have tested L21+, I encourage you to join the R-L21 Project at FTDNA. For those of you who have tested DF21+, I encourage you to join the R-DF21 Project at FTDNA. If you haven't already done so, I encourage all LSC men to join our project at FTDNA.